WT would say that Jesus paid a debt for Adam.... not you or me. For the average JW, the WT would say that you now get to work for your salvation by doing good and adhering to all the rules of the WT. Pretty much the same as the Catholic Church.

But scripture says that "by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified". (Justification means - no debt). But what is even worse than that is that scripture also says if you try to work for your salvation, you are actually piling up even more debt that you must pay for on Judgement Day - after you die (Hebrews 9:27)

Rom_4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

For the joy that was set before him, Jesus paid a debt He didn’t owe because we owed a debt we couldn’t pay.

The moment when Jesus Christ was killed.. shouldn't life entered the world? But if Jesus Christ still exists, what good was the sacrifice? Shouldn't Jesus Christ be destroyed entirely for any sacrifice to take place?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Believers get a new spirit when they are sealed. That new spirit cannot sin and thus is a down payment on the full redemption which will include the soul and the body.

When Jesus died as a righteous person, he had no debt. Thus he had a "right" to life. Since God is "a God of the living and not the dead", God freely gave him his rightful inheritance of life.

Believers are offered the same inheritance:

Jn. 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God

8

2 Peter and Jude and 1 Enoch

by Parallax in

i'm new to the forum and i have a question about what was said in a 16-year-old thread at this forum.

a poster by the name of leolaia said.... the author of 2 peter did not recognize that jude 6 was an allustion to 1 enoch (just as he did not realize that jude 9 was an allusion to the assumption of moses and thus rephrased it incoherently in 2 peter 2:11), or he may have objected to the enochic reference (just as jude 14-15 was omitted in 2 peter 2).

in either case, the author overlooked the enochic allusion and instead recognized the passage as an allusion of hesiod and thus embellished the passage from jude with an allusion to hesiod's tartarus.. .

Sea Breeze

The Muratorian Fragment lists 22 of the 27 NT books as canonical. It dates to 170 AD. The document is called a fragment because portions of the document have been torn off. The well known biblical scholar Westcott states that the missing books were probably included initially because the document is torn where they should have been listed.

The answer to defeating the heresy of JW's is the Word of God itself... not more heresy.

There are many, many ancient Jewish history books and historical Dead Sea Scrolls that are fascinating to read. Enoch is one. The Book of Jasher is another. Both books are either quoted or are mentioned by name in the bible. The Gnostic heretics wrote a number of works by the same names though. So be careful. The gnostic versions of ancient books are easy to determine, but you do have to be aware of them and be careful.

You can pick up the Book of Jasher by Ken Johnson on Amazon. It is sort of a cliff notes version, is a good read, and will fill in a lot of the early details of humanity written about in Genesis.

Ancient history books are not "lost books of the Bible". That is a marketing ploy. They were never considered inspired. And as such, believers read them with a grain of salt noting that they may not have been preserved exactly as originally written.

Other books referenced in the bible:

The Book of Wars, Num. 21:14
The Book of Jasher, Josh. 10:13
The Chronicles of David, 1 Chron. 27:24
The Book of the Kings of Israel and Judah, 2 Chron. 27:7; 35:27; 36:8
The Book of the Kings of Israel, I Chron. 9:1; 2 Chron. 20:34.
The Words of the Kings of Israel, 2 Chron. 33:18.
The Decree of David the King of Israel, 2 Chron. 35:4.
The Chronicles of Samuel the Seer, 1 Chron. 29:29
The Chronicles of Nathan the Prophet, 1 Chron. 29:29
The Book of Gad, 1 Chron. 29:29
The Book of the Prophet Iddo, 2 Chron. 13:22
The Words of Shemaiah the Prophet, 2 Chron. 12:15
The Deeds of Uzziah by Isaiah the Prophet, 2 Chron. 26:22; 32:32
The Book of Jehu, 2 Chron. 20:34
The Record book of Ahasuerus, Esther 2:23; 6:1
The Book of Remembrance, Mal. 3:16
The Book of Life, Dan. 12:1; Phil. 4:3; Rev. 20:11; 22:19
The Book of Judgment, Dan. 7:10; Rev. 20:12
The seven-sealed book, Rev. 5:1, 13.
An angel’s book, Rev. 10:2

The Book of Gad is also available on Amazon by Ken Johnson. It was a really good read as well.

Testimony of the 12 Patriarchs is not referenced in the bible but is also available. It was considered by skeptics to be written by Christians several hundred years after Jesus lived because the theology is essentially Christian and not Pharisee. When a portion was found in Qumran with a BC date, it changed that view for many.

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Sea Breeze

Heretics have been around since the very beginning 2000 years ago. They are a special breed all their own.

31

I made a Website to examine the scriptures/words usage in every JW publication since 1950/1970

by ComingOutaMyCage in

hi everyone!i'm new here, but have been active on the reddit r\exjw community.

i have just published a website where i analysed the last 50-70 years worth of watchtowers, awake, books, brochures, and kingdom ministries/work books.. i have collected all the data and published it at the link below.

you can also see below an example of genesis.

Sea Breeze

Book marked. Thanks for putting this together.

8

Margaret Keane' the one time 'big eyes' wt illustrator, RIP.

by waton in

a creative person that got a lift from her touch and riding the wave of wt "first love" involvement, when living in hawaii.

.

anyone knows what happened in her later life?

Sea Breeze

I toured the "Branch Office" in Hawaii in 1989. Yes, even though Hawaii is a State in the USA, the GB in their infinite wisdom saw fit to establish a branch office on this idyllic Pacific destination.

I was surprised to see many original pieces depicting her black-eyed kids (BEK) this artist was famous for hanging on the walls everywhere. I had never see artwork in any KH. The tour guide seemed impressed that a well-known artist would also be a JW. It must be the truth if a well-known artist who paints creepy alien-hybrid looking kids has joined, right?

Black Eyed Kids

Anyway, the paintings seemed odd and out of place for a "Christian" Center. Now, it all seems rather appropriate.

28

The resurrected will not get a change of clothes in the New System

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the watchtower—study edition | september 2022.

20 what an exciting time the thousand year reign will be!

it will include the greatest educational program ever undertaken here on earth.

Sea Breeze

Exactly Anna. Scripture says Satan will be chained in the abyss for 1000 years. The WT teaches that the Millennium Reign began in 1914, 108 years ago.

The WT doesn't teach that Satan is bound yet. They teach the opposite.... he's lurking in every garage sale and antique shop in the world!

So what's the deal? If the big A came tomorrow, Satan would only be chained 892 years. But scripture says 1000 years. Hmmm whom to believe?

On a side note: those really are 'bout the cleanest windows I've ever seen. Guess they are figuring on having plenty of help in that department.

36

January 6th hearings...

by Queequeg in

what's your take on the january 6th hearings?.

Sea Breeze

Meanwhile, while we all watch the misdirection, Bidens top health care ~~pervert~~ official in the US targets our children:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY0VNzkLHTI&ab_channel=GOPWarRoom

173

Roe vs Wade Overturned by US Supreme Court!

by Simon in

i know there was a leak a few weeks back, but this really does seem to have come out of the blue.. the anomaly was the original decision.

it clearly had no basis in law or the constitution, and was a flimsy, ridiculous ruling.

plus the whole thing was based on a fraudulent case in the first place.. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61928898.

Sea Breeze

Just "nature" taking its course?

Yes. We live in a fallen world. Disconnected from the Source. An aberration to the original design. As such, victim to the second law of thermal dynamics. Decay. Accumulating deleterious mutations with each generation. It's called genetic entropy. Very well understood these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mfn2upw-O8

Sea Breeze

Posts by Sea Breeze

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For the joy that was set before him, Jesus paid a debt He didn’t owe because we owed a debt we couldn’t pay.